tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9396860.post1093523325848715857..comments2024-03-28T08:41:17.341-04:00Comments on <center> Ralph the Sacred River </center>: "Loving This Book": Stative and ProgressiveEdhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05188482189638751204noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9396860.post-33584670841773534592011-03-10T07:08:07.201-05:002011-03-10T07:08:07.201-05:00@Mike: Vendler's test for English actually is ...@Mike: Vendler's test for English actually is diagnostic for individual-level vs. stage-level predicates, not really for stativity as such. However, individual-level predicates amount in most (all?) cases to statives, so the test is relevant if not diagnostic for aspect phenomena. By "relevant" I mean heuristically interesting, not necessarily diagnostic. For Hebrew? That's what we're currently studying in the seminar. We've had to isolate constructions in which the active participle has to be read progressively -- not as easy as it sounds. I'll let you know what we find. I very much enjoy EN EPHESO, by the way.<br /><br />@Buce: I don't know, but it's worth looking into. <br /><br />@Melissa: Maybe; I still don't think it would be expected to use the progressive with "love" in such a case.EMChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02505525490002421093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9396860.post-86725915222501223852011-03-09T18:47:07.741-05:002011-03-09T18:47:07.741-05:00Seems to me that kind of progressive is common in ...Seems to me that kind of progressive is common in Yiddish/English comedy. "The party I am throwing downstairs last night is mein husband Pierre." My guess that most comic foreign language forms represent modes of speech that would be perfectly acceptable in the home language. Is this progressive form an artifact of real Yiddish? Russian/Polish/German?Bucehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452321114185736762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9396860.post-36862963091181941942011-03-09T13:20:06.848-05:002011-03-09T13:20:06.848-05:00You can't just say "it's not relevant...<i>You can't just say "it's not relevant for English" in that flat way. It is relevant, and I don't regard this as even controversial.</i><br /><br />Whatever, change "not" to "less" and you've got it. And to correct myself (for a third time). I should have said: "English does allow [the progressive for] certain classes of stative predicates"<br /><br />Anyway, how does the test fair for Hebrew?Mike Aubreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04335768638306462369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9396860.post-84855079891902931702011-03-06T18:28:15.772-05:002011-03-06T18:28:15.772-05:00Ed, I'm not sure why in your example, "I ...Ed, I'm not sure why in your example, "I am loving this book", "'this book' cannot mean 'this object'; it has be taken as 'the current process of reading this book'"? What if you see it on the book-shelf and haven't read it but are increasingly intrigued by it, that is, progressively feeling greater levels of love or affection for the book. Isn't this progressive aspect of love reflected in the notion of falling in or out of love?Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10823990563567156651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9396860.post-35995451341154662722011-03-05T22:01:48.894-05:002011-03-05T22:01:48.894-05:00You can't just say "it's not relevant...You can't just say "it's not relevant for English" in that flat way. It is relevant, and I don't regard this as even controversial. But in the final analysis, I'm not interested in English, but in Hebrew (and Aramaic).EMChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02505525490002421093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9396860.post-23724474132859403032011-03-05T21:45:39.408-05:002011-03-05T21:45:39.408-05:00Yes, I meant:
"English does [the progressive...Yes, I meant:<br /><br />"English does [the progressive] allow certain classes of stative predicates"<br /><br />The "incompatibility test" is *still* a good test. It's just not relevant for English. It is relevant for numerous other languages.Mike Aubreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04335768638306462369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9396860.post-33371106877734709212011-03-05T21:39:32.433-05:002011-03-05T21:39:32.433-05:00Mike: I assume in your last paragraph you mean &qu...Mike: I assume in your last paragraph you mean "stative progressives" and not "stative predicates." <br /><br />Yes, since 1957 a lot has been published this topic, although the "incompatibility with the progressive" test is still often used, although never without qualification. Even before Dowty, Leech (Meaning and the English Verb, 1971) noted the existence of progressives with putatively stative verbs.EMChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02505525490002421093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9396860.post-85201213614543026632011-03-05T20:51:15.781-05:002011-03-05T20:51:15.781-05:00Vendler's original statement about progressive...Vendler's original statement about progressives and stativity has been long discarded as in accurate for English (though it is still true for a number of other languages).<br /><br />The book is lying on the table.<br />The picture is handing on the wall.<br /><br />See, for example, Carlota Smith;s <i>The Parameter of Aspect</i> from 1997 (second edition).<br /><br />If anything, Waltke & O'Connor on this point reflect a less than contemporary discussion. I'm pretty sure the recognition that English does allow certain classes of stative predicates goes back to Dowty's <i>Word meaning and Montague grammar</i> (1979), though I don't have it on hand to check for sure.Mike Aubreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04335768638306462369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9396860.post-81692308314998901842011-03-05T17:31:53.353-05:002011-03-05T17:31:53.353-05:00Certainly one can properly say, "I am loving ...Certainly one can properly say, "I am loving every minute of this holiday/book/film."<br /><br />Macdonald's alogan on UK and Polish advertisements reads, "I'm loving it!"Left-footerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18154175028539882422noreply@blogger.com